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forgiveness (Photo credit: cheerfulmonk)
Tonight I was talking to a friend about forgiveness.
He said his new religion is me and we laughed.
That was not long after I said, “The priest in Les Miserables did what I or you or anyone else would do for someone who was just released from prison, hungry and trying to make a new start and try to show the con a better way, give him a start to a better life. (Bear in mind I saw the live production at the QE theatre 3x so I am a sucker for the goodness the priest showed.) Wouldn’t we do the same? (My friend didn’t answer so I kept going.)
But think about this, does anyone really, honestly believe we should forgive Charles Manson or Hitler or the 911 bombers… I mean if that’s the case, why do we think of things as such tragedy and have a need as humans to debrief, process and come to terms with terrible crimes against our person or psyche or loss or … why can we not simply pull up our socks and get on with it – isn’t that what separates us from the animals? But even animals mourn and grieve… have you never seen it? I have.”
We both agreed we do not believe in bearing grudges or continuing to walk in anger, only that there is no “certain time” to be at peace with a situation that is grossly unjust, unfair or inhumane. I said that Chris Isaac came into my head and his interview where he, in jest, said something like “just as long as you say I’m a Christian…” because I think this massive idea of forgiveness was religion sprouted. Some things in life are simply unforgivable. They are too horrific to even speak of let alone forgive.
But that does not mean that we are not free to carry on loving others, free to trust others and move on, move forward away from the pain as best we humanly can. But sometimes we are haunted until we die. Or still have a legal process ahead of us to survive. We are not automatons nor are we clones, each of us is entitled to a different idea about healing processes because they are as individual as the person surviving them.
Sometimes there is no forgiving because, even though you probably would save that person’s life if you were called to do it in a moment of collective humanity, you wouldn’t want to be put in that position. Just in case.
Okay, I’m nuts, I’ll admit it. I was laughing when I wrote ‘just in case’ just now. But do you see what I mean?
I can’t make right wrongs others choose to do or forgive them when they aren’t even sorry and likely never will be due to that high horse they jumped on and won’t dismount.
For example, could you forgive an abuser and keep on forgiving them for incessantly abusing you further making YOU wrong every time they didn’t want to deal with the FACTS of what they had done and/or continue to do to you without any sign of regret whatsoever, all the while deeming YOU crazy while they did so?
I didn’t think so.
Neither can I.
But that’s really okay. It’s really okay not to forgive sometimes. Because sometimes forgiving just puts us right back under the wheels of the bus.
And I’m just a little more than totally exhausted from ironing out all those tire tracks on my hide.
Permission to be human and permission to not forgive if that’s what we need to do. It doesn’t mean nursing hatred or hostility because that is harmful to the self. It just means being at peace with the fact that it really is okay not to forgive. Because sometimes, you just can’t.
Oh I know holy and holier than thou people every where will likely disagree. But that just means they don’t know exactly what I mean.
No more harping at people in pain that forgiveness is the path to freedom. Or telling those unable to forgive that they are negative! That is a supreme form of abuse of someone who has already been hurt or abused in my opinion. The real path to freedom in my world is, as author and clinical psychiatrist David Burns, MD, says in his Feeling Good Handbook, getting rid of all the shoulds.
No more shoulding all over myself. No matter what the shiny, happy never-even-rode-in-my-canoe people say I “should” do. Try telling the Sandy Hook parents what they should do right now. Myself, I think I should shut my mouth and let those mourning folks do whatever it is they need to do because this is a life long healing journey and I can’t even begin to imagine how to tell others they should heal when I am still struggling myself over issues not even close to theirs on the richter scale of pain and suffering.
You should forgive, they say. They being so many who think they have or actually have or are in a far different place of wellness, having finished their own healing journey, to judge others anyway. If they really knew what they were talking about they should be quiet and accept me just as I am, wherever I am in whatever stage of the process I am in or whatever I choose to do or not to do that is best for me.
The next time somebody says “you should…” or “you need to…” to me, I will remain silent and trust that what I should really do is forgive them for their arrogance and … walk away. Quietly. I resolve not to let them disturb the peace I have found in not forgiving. They could never understand what I mean if they haven’t been here anymore than I can fathom how they preach freedom in forgiveness while walking with such loud invisible chains.
But that’s okay. We are not all the same. Different – just the way I like people.
JAM(C)3Jan2012
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I see a difference in forgiving and justifying. I can forgive my abuser but not justify his/her actions against me. If I hang on to my animus, I’m harming myself. I need to let go of emotions that weigh me down. That doesn’t mean I need to remain in situations that harm me or let people off the hook. I can have my abuser arrested and forgive them while they are in jail.
Acting in kindness towards myself and others is always my goal. It is no kindness to let abuse continue for either party. Forgiving does not mean forgetting or remaining a victim. Quite the contrary. To me, it means being the bravest person I know.
There is a difference in forgiveness and justification and I think there should be. But I am not saying we act without kindness, we simply release it, move forward without necessarily performing an act of forgiveness so much as kindness to the soul self. Harmful people deserve no further “gifts” in my opinion. We do. We deserve the right to forgive or not forgive, whichever works best for our healing process and whichever serves us best to move forward and heal faster. If I, for one, start getting myself all tangled up in others ideas of what I should do, then I feel again as though I have done something wrong AGAIN when, in fact, I have been wronged and now feeling confused/ashamed of feeling badly for not gifting the WRONGDOER with my forgiveness. So I don’t forgive some things but I don’t feast on it in the night or anything, I just release and move on. Sometimes being brave is about simply letting the notion of forgiveness go when it can no longer serve. Recognizing what is possible and what is viable in any individual situation is key to walking soulfully and kindly. Forgiveness is not a requirement in my world. I accept that we are all different and there is no one right formula for being human. I understand those who can’t forgive, they have simply, finally come to a place of peace about the wrong doing and that’s all we really need to do. Be and feel as peaceful in our hearts as we possibly can. If forgiving feels like one more gift to an abuser/user/criminal when they have already destroyed and taken so much, it won’t work. Gifting ourselves with the peace of recognizing we cannot change them, even if we did forgive them, but we can slowly mend ourselves forward, up out of their evil clutches to a place of peace within is what matters more. Many say they forgive and are just as angry as anything afterward. Peace is more important to my heart than trying to do something that won’t work. Forgiveness has worked for me in many situations. But some are too inviolate to address with forgiveness, it will be wasted on the evildoer(s) anyway. It’s more important that my own heart heals and is able to open again to the possibilities of true love and friendship then keep trying to do something others think best, especially when it is akin to bashing my head against a brick wall and I know it. It will achieve nothing for me. What gives me the peace is something I can’t even name, it is a place I find within, a place I reconnect to once the shards of war are long grown over by wildflowers, then my heart can flower again, too. To me, this is braver than giving another gift to someone who already stole so much, caused so much loss and heartache. Just resting in the peace of knowing it/they can’t haunt me or hurt me anymore is good enough for me, plucking the wildflowers from the field or just admiring them as they grow, bending but not breaking in the breeze. I like what you said about weightlessness, that’s exactly how it feels, my heart once black and heavy with pain caused by others is regaining it’s weightlessness, my step grows lighter as the days grow longer and I am glad I have reached this place of peace on my healing journey to much, much more. Thanks for sharing yourself and for bringing my thoughts out once again, Lorna. You rock xo
I think you are thinking about forgiveness versus forgetting. You can forgive without forgetting. Forgetting is the part where you move away from toxic relationships or jobs or family. I have forgiven the mother who abused me as a child. I never forget. I also have let go of the past and live in the present. Admittedly, there are times it is hard not to hear the old tapes. Forgiveness isn’t easy. Buddha talks about how anger doesn’t hurt the other person, it hurts you the most. Blessings, Barbara
No, I’m not confusing them. I understand and appreciate what you are saying. I actually have the Buddha books as well as many other spiritual works purchased since the 80′s. Like you, I have forgiven many who abused me as a child. Some I never will but they are not family and the abuses were vile. Despite that, I walked around in my teens preaching love and peace everywhere I went. It didn’t mean I wasn’t peaceful or spewing hate nails all the time. I just came to a place of peace with what had happened and knew I could do better, be better, if I just kept going. What I see commonly is the mistaken notion that if you don’t forgive, you are still angry. For me, it is the complete opposite. I still feel that the treatment of the past several years was not just plain WRONG but unwarranted, unjustifiable, etc but what I do finally have is an inner peace. I will never comprehend their mindset/choices and don’t want to. I am still struggling daily just to do simple things, learning to do simple things all over again since the PTSD. What I do feel, at least, after nearly five years of steady bombardment, is a peace in my heart. I am at peace with the wrongdoers. Just because I don’t forgive them doesn’t mean I am angry or wrong in any way. What I’m saying is that every single individual in the world loves differently, feels differently, mourns differently, heals differently from others and has the right to decide what is best for them. The idea of gifting my abusers with forgiveness because others believe I should isn’t even humane to me. All books spiritual or otherwise were written by men/man women/woman. All healing is different. I think forgiveness is a pressure for many when the last thing they need is to feel as though they are somehow wrong for being wronged. Well, that’s how it feels. As the grief counselor says, it is all so individual, what works for one won’t work for others. Forgiveness is not a requirement of healing where I live. A peaceful heart is. Valuing that in spite of all the abuses and inhumane treatment, I can walk forward with a peaceful heart is what means the most to me, connects me to the wholeness of my being and lets me simply be me to do whatever I need to do, whatever it takes to be at peace. Gee, you and Lorna are really making me work today, lol. Pouring myself out here in answers. Thanks for your feedback
Always good to see how others think/believe, that’s how we learn best, I think. Happy Day and thanks again.
I apologize for making you think I thought you had to forgive. All abuse is unwarranted and evil. If you are at peace in your heart, then you are in the space you need to be in at this moment. You are a very courageous woman and I admire that. I understand the abuse and the PTSD. I have that diagnosis also. I was a psych nurse in the day. I actually think the sanest people are the ones we lock up. LOL. Please forgive me if I caused you any pain and have a blessed day. Hugs, Barbara
Thnaks, Barbara, no pain at all. Just think/write aloud as I would if you were here. Probably more pauses though, lol. Thanks again for your feedback, I think of Joni Mitchell singing I’ve looked at life from both sides now. Not saying I have only that I do try despite my own limitations to see the value and respect others values at the same time. I was a power house in the day, too. Who knew anyone of any age could be struck still and overwhelmed so that putting matching socks on becomes a challenge. I hope I didn’t cause you any pain in my reply now, gee we are going to be the apology club in a moment, lol. Never worry, that’s what blogging is for – communicating. Anything else and why bother, it’s what makes it all worthwhile. Thanks kindly for your thoughtful note.
Auora, my friend. You are a very special woman. I have been in and out of therapy since the 70′s. And I was a psych nurse and counselor. I have a lot of training.There are still days when I am frozen. My mind and body can’t handle any more, it is usually a small thing. I am 62, and still deal with the trauma. You did not cause me pain. We have both been victimized and every day is a victory when we survive and each day we contribute to the world, we are healing ourselves and putting out the positive energy and knowledge into the world that can change the world. Hugs, Barbara
Hi, Barbara,
Your name won’t be forgotten by me because it is also the name of one my all time favorite people in the world, my mum-in-law who left us for much higher clouds many years ago.
Speaking of clouds, it appears you and I share one. I am mid-fifties so not far behind you in the age but totally relate to the frozenness of being. Some days it is all I can do to get on the computer and answer people. Reacting or being inspired by others in our blogging community here is part of what has kept me going. I like the discussion and that we can all say our piece, whatever our individual “peace” may be.
I went to therapy to try to save my marriage in the 90′s. Obviously it did not work. It never could have. It takes two of you to do the work and only one of us was willing. I no longer am, thank all the Gods and Angels.
But I can see where I spent a lot of time not being who I wanted to be. I’m not even sure who I am yet. Still evolving as I write. Just want you to know that I am grateful for ALL commenters here.
Learned so much from so many and found that I am not nearly as alone as I thought I was. Also found that I must write. It is akin to breathing. If I stop, I wither. So glad to have found this community in Spring 2011. I literally do not know where I might be without this place where I’ve poured my heart out on my darkest nights to have a bright, loving light answer me back and let me know I’m still doing okay.
One day, I hope to be better than just okay and roaring full steam ahead to writing more than just the blog. But for now, it seems about all I can do with court matters still ahead and documentation time for that so arduous as is the lengthy process.
We definitely are healing ourselves and that we connected on here is just another serendipitous coincidence on our journey.
Changing my world one wee letter at a time… thanks for your kind thoughts.
<3 <3 <3
Well, please feel free to write to me any time you need a listening ear. Healing is an ongoing process and you will do it one step at a time. Many blessings to you and I will keep you in my prayers. Hugs, Barbara
And I, you, Barbara. Much love xo
I agree with so much of what you wrote. Forgiveness like hope is pure B.S. Why forgive a vicsious cruel abusive or inhumane person or hope that the tdal wave won’t actually hit you or destroy your community?
Be kind, be of integrity, watch your words, thoughts and deeds. There is no need to hope or forgive when one is simply who and what they are
Aha! I wondered what you might have to say on this. Sounds like the Four Agreements to me.
Love it and you.
Especially your last line: “There is no need to hope or forgive when one is simply who and what they are.”
Well said.
Love,
she who has endured a tidal wave of vicious, cruel, abusive, inhumane persons who nearly destroyed her before she found some pieces of herself to “peace” back to wholeness… still working on it. Love and Peace to everyone xo
I would never harp on to anyone about forgiveness or ‘negativity’ – what people feel at bad times is natural, human. But again you make me consider a Bible passage and its import.
Put the case that God exists. Put the case that God’s executive power (‘Word’) was put into human form and walked the earth as God’s son. Can you imagine anything more terrible than to kill God’s son? (Rhetorical question.) Yet the biblical account has him praying for his killers’ forgiveness, because they had no idea what they were doing.
Now, this is not the basis for cancelling out honest, natural human reactions. Nor is it holding Christ up as an example to aspire to – no one is seriously saying that an ordinary person whose child was killed in a school massacre ‘should do that because Christ did it’.
But then there is the mystery of what the apostle Paul says: “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.” (Galatians 2:20)
Exegesis would be didactic and intellectual here. But what we might be seeing is a testimony to this: That Christ in us forgives. Or maybe the Buddha in us forgives. Or something in us yet beyond us, transcendent, forgives. Or something inexplicable forgives, if you don’t want to put a religious tag on it. Whatever it may be, it lifts us out of the ordinary, it lifts us out of the state we were in when God limited our revenge to an eye in recompense for an eye (and make no mistake that WAS a limit – there was never any prohibition on taking less than an eye), it tells us that there is now more to life than the blood feud.
Maybe.
M
Are you a minister of some sort, M? Your ability to quote these biblical passages exhibits a steel trap mind of one who knows the bible very well. I do not.
My knowledge of the Bible is limited to my Atheist father telling me six months before he died that everything is in there, he read it cover to cover, the minister visited him at home and Dad said everything that happened and everything that’s going to happen is in there. That was quite the conversion to witness.
Another spiritually walking friend with the gift of seer always asks, “who is the author…”
I’m somewhere in between the two and get the lessons in the passages you mention but they are common lessons in all spiritual ways and works as far as I know and have read and your last paragraph kind of underlines my point that it doesn’t need a label really, it is a transcendent sensation of merely letting go, letting it be, walking away with peace within regardless of whether you have technically forgiven or not. Well. That’s what I do. Did. Probably will again someday, too. I don’t even apply a label of forgiveness to it so much as just knowing the time is there for me to simply move on and feel free of the burden of pain, to let it be that it lets me be… It does lift me out of the ordinary because I can’t explain it properly even… my ex used to say he never understood how I could continue being so loving to people who hurt me… it’s kind of the same thing, I guess… freedom to peacefully be me no matter what they do. I know I totally personalized this but I’m tired and that’s all the excuse I have. Right now. lol Glad you swung by and went to visit Elyse. She’s really good. You’ll like her pages.
I believe that you are right, that it is a matter of freedom, or rather of being freed – I think that’s where ‘grace’ comes into it.
No, I’m not really a minister of any sort, just someone who is very biblically literate (and, I have to say, someone who has never gone to biblical ‘professionals’ for ‘instruction’, but has simply read and re-read the Bible, sitting very lightly to things that remained a mystery and accepting things which have been opened). As such I have found within the Bible a hell of a lot which seems totally closed to a whole swathe of professing Christianity, for whom it is a rule book in which to bury your nose*. Also I have found a hell of a lot more in it than people who dismiss it do.
It is many things, not least of all a profoundly human document. In the form of the King James Version it is also a corner-stone of English literacy. It is also a witness statement to ‘metanoia’ – to the change of being which can overcome a person – and possibly to the immAnence, immediacy, and availability of that metanoia. If such a thing does indeed exist then it can potentially change humankind. If not, then the book still remains a treasure, if a problematical one.
M
__________
* Did you know, for example, that the Bible never calls itself ‘The Word of God’?
No I did not know!
But I thank you for this and for your very sound reply. King James is the version by my bed and while I have not read it cover to cover, whenever I need something, an answer to something, I open it and Voila. ie: Years ago, I asked what should I do about these women in my life (coworkers) who claimed to be so spiritual and put in my life for a reason yet troubled me privately that they could think/say such a thing to me. Asked the question, opened the bible: “False teachers” right there on the upper right page looking back at me. Done. Gone. Of course I was courteous to them both being older than me but I no longer listened to a single thing they said that wasn’t work related.
I believe my Dad read the King James version as well.
Agree it is a treasure, if not literary then most certainly spiritually because it says exactly the same things many other spiritual books say.
Written by God or not.
Thanks for the insights into the Bible and you. Love the way your brain rolls, M. Word.
Follow that drum Jam, it beats different for each of us, that’s why we’re unique.
“”If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.” – Henry David Thoreau
Loving you and Thoreau, Cynthia… it’s not that I don’t respect others or believe in God… or forgiveness… but I think I believe all Gods are one… all love is one… we are all connected… energies link us if not love… in the midst of that lives individual humans with individual paths, ways of walking the earth and being… that’s all, really… Drumming on softly with a big cotton tipped swab, LOL xo
Oh boy do I know what you are saying. No, I do not have to forgive in order to heal. No, forgiveness isn’t as much for me as it is for the one I am supposed to forgive. As my ex mother in law said,” relationships aren’t all one sided dear, you had your part in it too. You need to find forgiveness and let it go”. No sorry mom; I don’t have to forgive to let it go. Your son is a lying, abusive a-hole, who tried to destroy me, he cheated, he used me financially, he physically abused me, he is a pathological liar and YOU my dear lady “should” stop covering for him, being an accomplice in his deceit and make your little boy accountable for his actions. Maybe at almost 50 his mommy should stop bailing him out and make him act like a man. I never said that to her, she is an 80 year old woman who is being manipulated by him too. I just didn’t reply.No I am quit comfortable not forgiving him, even if he asked for it I wouldn’t believe him because if his lips are moving he’s lying. I forgave him lots in the past and it didn’t do me any good; is that selfish of me? Oh well. Am I bitter you betcha! Is it holding me back from healing; nope. There are time a little or alot of dislike is just what the doctor ordered.Well, ……. I best get off my soapbox now and go back to my little blog in the corner. (clearing throat) excuse me. Good post!!! Hehe bye!
Sent by Carrie the Lady Witha Truck
lmao Carrie, “if his lips are moving he is lying”
That says it all. Forgiving repeatedly with some leads to nothing but more forgiveness.
No change in the ill patterns of abuse, other than with most who do this, BLAMING YOU or anyone else (their parents, etc) for anything else they CAN to avoid any shame, remorse, regret or true understanding of the meaning of forgiveness.
Get on your soapbox anytime you want. Your voice speaks for so many… more voices for the individual journey to peace.
Forgiving myself for not requiring forgivness to be myself.
Love and peace to you and everyone xo
Hugs! Janice (if you don’t mind I call you that!), you have been through so much and your ability to share your thoughts with us really hits home for me so often. Forgiveness as you say is easier in theory than in reality but it is sooo healing. I am so glad we know each other xx
No, call me whatever you like, just not late to dinner, LOL
Christy, I love that you weighed in on this. I am so glad to know you as well and appreciate your feedback. Always.
You are so right. Theory and application are two separate ideals and sometimes there is no meeting in the middle. Then there has to be a new way for others to feel good about moving on where the divide occurs. Finding our own way through the divide is the conquer, the path to peace for the individual.
I didn’t even know what mine would be. I was so alone and lost I had no anchor. Yes, I walk spiritually and believe I have angels with me. I see miracles daily that cannot be explained otherwise. But moving forward in the real world, finding a place in it again was so challenging. Still is.
Blogging and the women’s centre have reconnected some of my broken wires. Still working on the rest as I go and learning, learning, learning.
Thanks again for dropping this xo
I think ” forgiveness” is a beautiful concept and one that inspires me. However, let me be honest. If I found someone had abused a child I know, or terrorised an old person I loved and valued, I suspect I would enjoy exacting a revenge on their behalf. It’s a deep question and I would love the chance to talk at length about it, but some crimes remain unpardonable to me. I hope I can forgive myself for that
This, lovely Peter, should have been my blog. Thank you.
Wait. No more “shoulding” all over myself, LOL
Appreciating your honesty, your humanity and ability to sum up so well what I struggled to do.
I love that this post has touched/moved something in so many. Perhaps it is something we need to keep talking about.
Or at the very least, thinking about in ways that help others to the love, peace and emotional freedom they seek.
Love and peace to you, thank you.
What a beautiful and thought-provoking post. One of the things I have missed most about having time to hop around the blogosphere is stopping by your neck of the woods and reading your reflections. I remember your blog as always “real” and soul-searching, and that hasn’t changed a bit! Looking forward to catching up more now that I have finished my long writing project and am allowing myself some playtime again : ).
As for forgiveness, I have learned to forgive for me. Anger and resentment hurt and make me someone I don’t like being, so I work at letting them go. But that doesn’t mean forgetting, and in many cases it means no longer associating with someone. I can wish someone well and hope the best for them without allowing myself to be put in a position where their actions impact MY life. A simple lesson, but one I knew in theory for years before I grew up enough to put it into practice. Guess we’re all still learning, every day.
Happy New Year my friend!
Pam! How lovely to see you… I was just thinking of you these past few days… hope all went well with your writing project
You know it’s funny but I was talking to a specialist’s nurse (later found out SHE was the specialist, lol) but while undergoing tests we chatted at length. She was so awesome, said that I should stop referring to my former friend as even friend at all. Said, how could anyone forgive such a thing, it’s such a betrayal of women’s relationships. She said she watches women very closely now and the first sign of selfishness, she moves away. She also said of my sharing that I can’t forgive, “Of course not. It’s your salvation. It’s your freedom.” I really liked her and her wisdom. Yours, too. Thanks for dropping this here today, Pam. Hope to visit you soon, I have had many things pulling on my time but try to get here daily and don’t always have time to read/comment. Much love to you and Happy New Year xo
May I simply just say what a comfort to find
somebody who genuinely knows what they are talking about online.
You certainly understand how to bring a problem to light and
make it important. More people should check this out and understand this side of your story.
I was surprised you are not more popular since you most
certainly have the gift.
Thank you very much for your kind compliments. Sometimes being popular isn’t everything it seems. Without true connection, it would ring hollow ego fodder for me. I like to see who is following me, follow back and read what they write about even if I can’t always visit them often. Humbly appreciating your visit and the time you took to write this lovely message to me.